FidoNews · Vol 2, No 40 · 18 November 1985
Volume 2, Number 40 18 November 1985
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| / \ |
| - Fidonews - /|oo \ |
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| Fido and Fidonet _`@/_ \ _ |
| Users Group | | \ \\ |
| Newsletter | (*) | \ )) |
| ______ |__U__| / \// |
| / FIDO \ _//|| _\ / |
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| (jm) |
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Publisher: Fido 1/1
Editor in Chief: Thom Henderson
Review Editor: Matt Kanter
Chief Procrastinator Emeritus: Tom Jennings
Fidonews is published weekly by SEAboard, Fido 1/1. You are
encouraged to submit articles for publication in Fidonews.
Article submission standards are contained in the file
FIDONEWS.DOC, available from Fido 1/1.
Disclaimer or don't-blame-us:
The contents of the articles contained here are not our
responsibility, nor do we necessarily agree with them;
everything here is subject to debate. We publish EVERYTHING
received.
Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL
In Pursuit of PCs
2. NEWS
Fido Distribution List
GTE Telenet's PC Pursuit HELPS BBS and Fido systems
Problems with Fido Utilities on an AT
Utility Programs
Ripoffs revisited -- What we can do
3. COLUMNS
FidoNet Route Files Explained, Part 3
4. WANTED
Emporia, Kansas mailing list
SBC-100; Multi-user Turbo DOS
5. FOR SALE
Sand rail for desert fun!
6. NOTICES
The Interrupt Stack
An Apology to GTE
Change in Net Number for Austin, Texas
Fidonews Page 2 18 Nov 1985
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EDITORIAL
============================================================
In Pursuit of PCs
What's the big deal, here? Maybe I'm missing something. So
GTE is selling a service aimed at BBS users. So? Don't you
want users to call your board?
If you often call boards far away, then I'd think you'd
welcome the chance to access them for a low flat rate. If
you're a sysop, I'd think you'd appreciate the influx of new
blood from distant places. My normal monthly phone bill is
in the hundreds of dollars; I'd welcome anything that would
lower it. As for our users, our board has callers from all
over the country, and even from Europe, and I love it. How
they manage to reach us doesn't really seem to make a
difference.
So how is GTE different from AT&T? After all, Ma Bell has
been making tons of money off of us for years! I've lately
heard a rumor that BBSers were/are the making of the "Reach
Out America Plan" (after all, who else is making long
distance calls at that time of night?), and nobody seems to
be getting upset about it. In fact, the Fido community
seems to have lovingly embraced the ROAP, since that's when
netmail takes place.
So why the uproar? I figure that it must be because GTE is
providing a service specifically targeted at BBSers, who
aren't used to it. We've always been considered a marginal
market, whether we are or not. Oh, USR is offering a
special deal to sysops, but that's different; it's
favoritism.
Everybody uses phones, and even Aunt Nellie can use ROAP on
Sunday, but only BBSers will really use PC Pursuit. We're
so used to being the ghetto of the computer community that I
guess it's uncomfortable to realize that we've become a
significant market segment. It's quite a change from being
a frowned-upon bunch of hackers.
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Fidonews Page 3 18 Nov 1985
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NEWS
============================================================
FIDO DISTRIBUTION LIST
6 November 1985
This list was compiled from responses to a proposal I submitted
to the FIDONEWS. I know there are more distribution nodes than
this, but these are the ones that responded. My thanks to those
of you listed here. If you are a distribution node, and would
like to be added to this list, send the relevant information to
the SYSOP on 109/74 - The Bear's Den. I will release updates to
this list as new distribution nodes are added.
NODE NODE NAME LOCATION PHONE NUMBER Version
---- --------- -------- ------------ -------
18/19 The Ark Tangent Tampa_FL 813-977-5347 * I
100/10 MDC_RCC, St._Louis_MO 314-232-6881 * D,I
100/22 PC LUG St._Louis_MO 314-576-2743 * D,I
100/51 DECUS Central St._Louis_MO 314-576-4129 * D,I
101/27 Dave's FIDO Gardner_MA 617-632-1861 * All
101/106 NewWorld Magic1 Swampscott_MA 617-595-5626 * I
106/343 PC-Interconnect Houston_TX 713-955-8120 I
109/456 FIDO-FHLMC Washington_DC 202-789-5090 I
109/483 Wash-A-RUG Fairfax_VA 703-359-6549 D,I
109/603 NET-EXCHANGE Reston_VA 703-689-3561 I
124/12 Inside Track Ed Plano_TX 214-422-4772 I
125/1 Fido's Board San_Francisco_CA 415-864-1418 * All
125/521 Satore Center San_Francisco_CA 415-647-8528 I,V
128/10 The Three Laws Colorado_Spgs_CO 303-574-1110 I
129/11 TACO Sanyo Fido Trafford_PA 412-856-1428 S
132/107 M'Cycle Bytes Amherst_NH 603-889-3366 * All
135/14 Metro-Fire Fido Miami_FL 305-596-8611 I,S
* Supports 2400 Baud
FIDO Version:
I[BM], D[EC], V[ICTOR], S[ANYO]
This version of the list was squeezed a bit, to allow it to
fit into the FIDONEWS format. If you would like a full 80
column copy of this list, it may be downloaded from either
FIDO 109/74 (The Bear's Den), or FIDO 109/483 (Wash-A-RUG).
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Fidonews Page 4 18 Nov 1985
Cliff Cummings
PC Pursuit Fido Nov. 8, 1985
GTE Telenet's PC Pursuit HELPS BBS and Fido systems
Regarding an article written in last weeks'Fidonews,
(11/4/85), GTE TELENET HAS PAID THE $100 FEE TO TOM JENNINGS
FOR COMMERCIAL USE OF FIDO. This payment was made a month
BEFORE the article appeared in which the author mistakenly
accused GTE Telenet of copyright infringement. Payment was
made as soon as the required fee and address were clarified
with the release of Fido version 11.
GTE Telenet is pleased to be using the Fido software to run
the User Guide for PC Pursuit -- probably one of the only
800 BBS numbers in the country (It's great - try it!
800-835-3001). We found the Fido software to be very
helpful in giving users information about Pursuit; Fido is
easy to install, maintain, and easy to use.
Unfortunately, the author of the article last week alledges
that PC Pursuit was established to exploit BBS's/sysops and
to exploit Fido. AU CONTRAIRE! GTE Telenet developed PC
Pursuit because the market for PC communications is growing
rapidly and there are hundreds of thousands of modem users
who want to communicate long-distance but could not cost-
effectively do so prior to PC Pursuit. Ask most sysops and
PC modem users if they would like to have unlimited long-
distance access to any phone number in major cities for just
$25 per month (evenings and weekends - which is 67% of the
168 hours in a week). The answer is a resounding YES.
Response to PC Pursuit has been tremendous -- we get
thousands of calls for service each week. Most sysops also
welcome calls from far away places since this brings in new
and interesting users and files.
Since we began the Fido BBS as a User Guide for PC Pursuit,
we have also had many inquiries about Fido and how others
can set up their own Fido BBS's or access other Fido
systems. We have recommended many users to check with Tom
Jennings BBS in Calif. and to access various other Fido
systems, and we will continue to recommend Fido as a well
designed BBS and networking system.
GTE Telenet's PC Pursuit currently services 12 major cities
across the U.S., but expansion will soon occur to many more
cities throughout 1986. For more information about PC
Pursuit, call a GTE Telenet representative at 800-368-4215,
or call our Fido BBS User Guide at 800-835-3001.
(Cliff Cummings, sysop of PC Pursuit User Guide Fido)
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Fidonews Page 5 18 Nov 1985
I've only been running a Fido for a few months, but
something I have run into again and again are utilitys that
will not run properly if at all on my system. (an IBM AT)
Nothing against the people that create the utilitys and make
them available to the SysOps at large, but it would be very
nice if the sources for some of these were made available so
they could be re-compiled on systems that have problems with
the supplied binarys.
For general information, the primary offenders seem to be
programs that are written in compiled Basic. The earlier
versions of the compiler are known to have problems on the
AT, later versions are supposed to be corrected.
Also, it would be nice if more of the SysOps would make it
known when they run into a program or combination of
utilitys that interfere with each other.
An example, TIMELOG.EXE will not run properly on my system
if GRAPHICS.COM is loaded. A minor annoyance I'll admit,
but I have a number of other programs that depend on the
Graphics module being loaded so it's a frequent occurance.
Please don't think that I'm saying this just to be a pest or
to vent my frustrations, but I can't believe that I'm the
only person that have had these problems.
By the way, this whole tirade was prompted when I discovered
that the current version of NODELIST.EXE will not run to
completion on my system apparently due to the fact that it
is written in compiled Basic.
I may be moving the system to a different computer in the
near future, so this may all become academic bafore this is
read, but I figured that it should be said.
Thanks - Jim Willing Fido 105/11
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Fidonews Page 6 18 Nov 1985
Date: 11 Nov 85
From: David Drexler/Mark Grennan, sysops Fido 19/202
Subject: Utility Programs
We have written two programs that the rest of you out in
Fidoland may find as useful as we have. They are dblside and
mdmctrl. Dblside (double-side) lets you prints doc files on
both sides of the paper; especially useful for lonnng text
files, like the Fido newletters and other documentation.
Mdmctrl (modem-control) outputs whatever arguments you give
it on the command line, to the modem. We use it in the bbs
batch file to make the modem go off-hook while we're "opping
the sys" so that anyone trying to dial in gets a busy, and
doesn't wonder whether our board has died.
Both programs are written in the CI-C86 flavor of C. Dblside
ought to compile under most anybody's compiler, as it
doesn't do anything particularly fancy, but mdmctrl diddles
the interrupts and may have to be hacked to compile under
another compiler.
These programs are available in both source-code and execu-
table form, and may be downloaded from our system. New users
on our bbs are required to register before downloading or
entering messages; we'll get you updated within 48 hours
(usually less than that, but not always!)
REMARK Information System
(405) 728-2463
The board for serious computerists
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Fidonews Page 7 18 Nov 1985
Chuck Bigham
Fido 138/27
RIPOFFS REVISITED -- WHAT WE CAN DO
The issues raised by Paula Giese in Fidonews 2/38 are
important ones that should be taken to heart by all BBS
users.
The service that GTE is offering is one that on the outside
appears to benefit all users. By providing an opportunity
for users in the East to develop an access route to users
in the West GTE is hooking up boards all across the country
and speeding the spread of information to all of us.
But the question remains: Can the corporate sector use
members of the private sector for profit, when the private
sector doesn't want to be used? And more importantly:
Are we in the private sector, who already provide such a
service for much less going to stand by and let it happen?
Unfortunately, we can not do much. The big money interests
in this country have the private individual pretty much at
a disadvantage. But there are things we can do.
First, sysops in the areas covered by PC Pursuit should
call the information board at 1-800-835-3001 (which, by
the way, is using Fido version 11 and has the temerity to
call itself Node 1 / Net 1) and ask for the BBS listing.
If your board is on the list, leave a message to the sysop
asking them to take it off. Many of these boards are
Fido's, if we withdrew our support, they would have that
much less to offer.
The second, and most important thing, that Fido users can
do, and this means every user, not just sysops, is
education. Over 8,000 people had called the PC Pursuit
board the night I called. I don't know how many of them
signed up, but if only half of them did, that's 4,000
people who didn't know about Fido.
Let's face it, to make PC Pursuit worthwhile, you'd have to
send 100 messages a month. Even on the Fido I use, which
charges a small access fee, I'd have to make 475 calls in a
four month period to make the monthly charge and hook-up
pay off.
And note, there are only the 10 cities that PC Pursuit can
access, not the whole country as I can on Fido. If more of
the 8,000 callers knew this, PC Pursuit would be out of
business and Fido-Net would be booming.
Educating the general computer community about Fido is
easy. Just talk it up to anyone you know with a computer.
Every BBS, not just Fido boards, should have a bulletin on
it about PC Pursuit and its cost effective alternative,
Fido-Net. Make sure local computer stores know the number
for the Fido boards in the area, because people who are
Fidonews Page 8 18 Nov 1985
new to town naturally inquire about that sort of thing
first at a store.
These things are at best a stop gap, as anyone who has ever
tried to fight a big company knows. And there will always
be people who need the kind of service that PC Pursuit
offers, and the ones who will demand to pay the most for a
service, believing in the lie that it has to be expensive
to be good. But the vast majority of the people will come
quickly to see that user-supported BBSs, like the local
boards where I live and the national Fido-Net, are where
the true spirit of cooperation and friendship lie.
Chuck Bigham Pullman Area Bulletin Board System
Fido 138/27
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Fidonews Page 9 18 Nov 1985
============================================================
COLUMNS
============================================================
FidoNet Route Files Explained
Part 3 -- Keep the Old, Ring In the New
by Ben Baker, Fido 100/76
Last week we looked at the basic routing statements
that have been with us since version 7 or so. Now let's
look at what's been added in version 11.
Please refer back to last weeks definitions. I con-
tinue to use them as defined.
RECV-ONLY
This tells Fido "Go ahead and build packets for any
targets in the SCHEDULE command's <target list>, but DON'T
ATTEMPT TO CALL ANYBODY. If any targets happen to call in
for any reason, try to give them their packets before they
get away."
There MUST be a <target list> for this statement to
mean anything. It is not intended for normally "receive
only" schedules like 202/0's collection schedule (see last
week). Instead, it prevents you from originating calls
during schedules when you are trying to SEND mail. (Route
files control how you send mail, not how you receive it.)
You are really trying to send mail on the other guy's
nickel, but as you will see, he has to cooperate in that
venture.
This statement might be used by the locals during the
collection schedule in a large, busy net. Collisions are
avoided because there's only one node, the outbound host,
placing calls. He POLLs (see below) the locals for their
outgoing traffic.
HOLD <hold target list>
"OK, Fido, build packets for targets in the <target
list>, but don't attempt to actually call any targets in
<hold target list>." This is a limited "RECV-ONLY" command.
Any packets for targets not in <hold target list> will be
sent normally (if they haven't been picked up), but packets
for <hold target list> have to be "picked up."
There's a hidden gimmick here that bears further
exploration. Ken Kaplan (Fido 100/22 AKA 1/0) is the
original source in the national nodelist distribution
system. Regional coordinators call his Fido each week to
pick up copies of the latest nodelist. The route file for
his national window contains the statement "HOLD <regional
coordinator list>." Fido will not attempt to send any
packets targetted for a regional coordinator. Does this
mean that he can't send "normal" messages to the
Fidonews Page 10 18 Nov 1985
coordinators? Not at all. Because he is a member of net
100, all his "normal" messages, including those addressed to
the coordinators, wind up in a packet targetted for 100/10,
the outbound host. Since 100/10 is not in the <hold target
list>, that packet is sent and the messages go out. HOLD
APPLIES TO THE TARGETS OF PACKETS, NOT TO THE ADDRESSEES OF
MESSAGES! It is only when Ken sends messages to the
coordinators with the nodelist (or other files) attached to
them that Fido builds packets targetted for them instead of
100/10.
Does that mean that Ken can't send the coordinators
other files without waiting for them to pick them up? Well,
yes and no. Because of the HOLD statement, he can't say
send FIDO_IBM.EXE to 14/61 (see PICK-UP below for why 14/61
and not 14/0). But he can use another gimmick. The
coordinators have dual identities (set by the '4' command of
Fido) and he can certainly send a file to 14/0. Fido is
smart, but so smart he'll notice that 14/0 and 14/61 happen
to have the same phone number. He'll send the packet for
14/0 and hold the one for 14/61. By the same token, if both
packets are still present when 14/61 calls in, he'll only
pick up the the nodelist targetted for 14/61 and not the new
Fido targetted for 14/0. (You can't have your cake and eat
it too.)
PICKUP <pickup target list>
Whenever any other Fido calls your Fido for any reason,
your Fido looks to see if there is a packet targetted for
him. If there is, your Fido will try to deliver it then and
there and avoid making the phone call which you have to pay
for. Without this statement (or the next one) in his route
file, the other Fido will simply hang up on you, leaving you
with a phone call to make in order to deliver your packet.
This statement says to Fido "If you happen to call any
target in <pickup target list>, hang around to see if he has
mail for me."
This is a two-edged sword. It can speed up mail
exchange, but the Fido that places the call pays for it. It
works best within a local net where the calls are all toll
free anyway. In fact, it won't work at all between larger
nets supported by distinct inbound and outbound hosts.
Specifying "PICKUP 100/0" in your national window schedule
would only get you messages originating on 100/0 (or 100/51
actually) with files attached. Any other mail for you might
be in a packet addressed to you, but on 100/10, the outbound
host, and that's not who you called.
Even worse, let's say Tom Jennings is sending a file to
100/10 and wants to pick up any mail from St. Louis for San
Francisco while he's at it. He's the host of net 125, and
that's perfectly legitimate, right? Wrong! His primary
identity (the '4' command again) is 125/1 and 100/10 may
have a packet for 125/0, but he won't have a packet for
125/1. This command deals at the packet/target level just
as the HOLD command does. Furthermore, it deals with real
Fidonews Page 11 18 Nov 1985
identities, not alternate identities.
As I said, this is most useful within a local net, and
that's where it probably should be applied.
POLL <poll target list>
This tells Fido "Even if I don't have any mail for the
targets in <poll target list> generate empty packets
addressed to them so you have an excuse to call them. Then
when you do call them, pick anything they have for me."
"POLL <poll target list>" implies "PICKUP <poll target
list>" which need not be specified. This is the statement
an outbound host might use to poll his locals or hubs for
outgoing traffic prior to national mail time. Together with
the next statement, this method can be very efficient.
The regional coordinators run a special schedule each
Saturday morning during the national mail window. It's
route file is identical to their normal national schedule
route file except that it contains the statement "POLL 1/0."
That's how they get the nodelist for subsequent redis-
tribution.
As I see it, POLL has a lot more uses than PICKUP.
SEND-ONLY
This one is mainly for outbound hosts. It says "I'm
not expecting any mail during this schedule, so don't wait
the normal one or two minutes for incomming calls after
making an outgoing call. As soon as you finish one, dial
another until all packets have been sent."
As I said above, this can be very efficient, but
there's a problem you need to be aware of. Fido will make a
maximum of 30 attempts without connect to send a packet to a
particular target. If you have only one packet addressed to
a busy target, Fido would normally take about an hour to use
up 30 attempts, but in SEND-ONLY mode he can attempt 30
calls in about 20 minutes! If you have a Courier and are
running it in "X4" response code mode, he'll make 30
attempts in 10 to 15 minutes. (The Courier doesn't waste a
lot of time in "fast-dial, busy-detect" mode.)
If you're an outbound host and want to try SEND-ONLY
during the national window, you risk using up your call
attempts while your target is busiest, then when he's
quieted down and you could get through, you've given up! I
suggest you break your national time into two schedules, and
only use SEND-ONLY during the last 20 minutes or so of the
national window.
On the other hand, polling your locals or hubs is a
different matter. They should be in RECV-ONLY mode and you
can expect every call to connect the first try. The call
attempt limit doesn't apply to this situation and the SEND-
Fidonews Page 12 18 Nov 1985
ONLY command should be used to shorten the time needed to
POLL everyone.
NO-ROUTE <addressee list>
This command tells Fido "Do not send messages addressed
to these nodes anywhere but to the addressed nodes. Treat
them as though they have files attached, whether they do or
not."
This lets you say things like Fido 100/76 (in Illinois)
might:
SEND-TO 100/10 ; Outbound Host (in Missouri)
ROUTE-TO 100/10 ALL ; Send everything to accross the river
NO-ROUTE 100/482 ; Except other Illinois traffic
The only other way to achieve this end is to list in
the ROUTE-TO command all 500 odd nodes whose messages should
be routed to 100/10, and that list changes every week!
Now you should have a good handle on how the commands
used in ROUTE.<tag> control how Fido SENDS files during
schedule <tag>. But sometimes these commands require very
long lists of node numbers which change from week to week as
the node list changes. LISTGEN 2 will generate the route
files automatically and let you specify the long lists
symbolically in terms of nets, area codes, etc.. Next week
in the last part of this series, we'll see how the
statements in LISTGEN's ROUTE.CTL file correspond to the
commands in ROUTE.<tag>.
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Fidonews Page 13 18 Nov 1985
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WANTED
============================================================
Jim Compton
NET 14 / NODE 386
Readers of FIDO NEWS:
I am looking for a person or Company that can supply
me with direct mailing list for the Emporia, Kansas area.
I would like the information to contain at least NAME
ADDRESS, PHONE #, CITY, ZIP. Additional Information that
would be helpful would include HOME OWNER, and OCCUPATION.
If anyone knows where I may obtain this information
they can contact me at NET 14/NODE 386 or my mailing
address:
Jim Compton
905 Thompson
Emporia, Ks 66801
Happy Thanksgiving!!!!
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Fidonews Page 14 18 Nov 1985
GENE BUCKLE ON FIDO 138/3.
I AM LOOKING FOR A SIERRA DATA SCIENCES (SBC-100) SLAVE
PROCESSOR AND I NEED TO GET IT ASAP.
I AM ALSO LOOKING FOR MULTI-USER TURBO DOS.
PLEASE SEND A NOTE TO FIDO 138/3 IF YOU HAVE OR KNOW
SOMEONE THAT HAS ANY OF THE ABOVE.
THANK YOU.
GENE BUCKLE FIDO 138/3
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Fidonews Page 15 18 Nov 1985
============================================================
FOR SALE
============================================================
FOR SALE:
Sand rail with Chenowith frame, Corvair engine (tri-
ported heads). Extra parts. Couple of transmissions.
Frame alone worth $2000.
Great for sand dunes--as in Yuma, AZ.
(But I moved to Seattle, WA) Might consider trade for
ski or sail boat.
Asking $3000.
Send FIDO-NET to SYSOP of FIDO 138/3 (or 17/0).
--Steve Butler, Region 17 Coordinator (138/3)
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Fidonews Page 16 18 Nov 1985
============================================================
NOTICES
============================================================
The Interrupt Stack
23 Nov 1985
European sysop conference -- Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Contact node 3101 for details.
27 Nov 1985
Halley's Comet passes closest to Earth before perihelion.
9 Dec 1985
DECUS Anaheim. The first session (Roadmap session) of
the PC Special Interest Group will meet at 11:30 in the
PC Campground (Bonita Tower, Santa Cruz room). See you
there...
24 Jan 1986
Voyager 2 passes Uranus.
9 Feb 1986
Halley's Comet reaches perihelion.
9 Feb 1986
Diana Overholt (109/74) has another birthday.
11 Apr 1986
Halley's Comet reaches perigee.
19 May 1986
Steve Lemke's next birthday.
24 Aug 1989
Voyager 2 passes Neptune.
If you have something which you would like to see on this
calendar, please send a message to Fido 1/1.
------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Jennings
Fido 125/1
While madly typing away at my article last week, I
made a somewhat misleading statement about GTE Telenet,
something to the effect that I doubted whether GTE had
really paid for the Fido they use.
Simply put, GTE has paid for their Fido, as
previously mentioned.
Fidonews Page 17 18 Nov 1985
I have always assumed that things I wrote here were
"all in the family", that only FidoNet sysops and users read
this junk, like being able to walk into your own living room
naked. However, unbeknownst to me, there were guests in the
living room!
------------------------------------------------------------
Change in NET for Austin and Central Texas Communications
As of Nov 15, the only net for the Austin, Texas
metropolitan area is net 136, The Central Texas
Professional Communications Net (CenTex_ProComm). This
net was originally a small group specializing in computer
communications, but has become the only active Austin net.
The net consists of nodes from the former net 103, region 19
and several new nodes. Those active nodes who formerly had
a node number elsewhere have kept the same node number, but
are now in net 136. New nodes are being assigned numbers
starting with 200. This should be the last change in this
area, and net communications for this area can now
stabilize.
If you have any questions regarding this net, Or any
communications related problems, please contact the host
board:
KYFHO WILDLIFE
136/600
(512)836-6881
Bob Hanes
Sysop KYFHO Wildlife
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